Wednesday, July 30, 2008

Gender Discrimination @ Your Library, or At Least Someone's Library

I've been glancing at a few of the comments. Sheesh, some people sure want me to die off. Oh well. Takes all kinds to make a world.

Someone sent this job ad to me today. I'm not sure what to say. At least they're honest about the requirements. Check out the title: Male Librarian. They don't want any stinkin' female librarians over there in Saudi Arabia, that's for sure. At least in this country when we want someone with a specific gender or race or whatever, we have the good taste to mask it in some sort of politically correct doublespeak and maybe even feel bad about it.

I like this requirement: "Candidates interested in the Librarian position MUST have an American Library Association accredited master's degree in library science and experience of working in an academic library."

I wish them the best of luck with their search, but...wait, no, I don't wish them any luck at all. To hell with 'em. Still, how many male librarians with ALA-Accredited library degrees would want to take a job with outright gender discrimination? Isn't part of being a male librarian that you're not particularly manly? I mean, you might be, but nobody sees you that way. Nothing personal. Would these male librarians want to work strictly around other males? I would think that one of the benefits of being a male librarian would be the ample pickings for dates (and I do mean ample!). Also, I can't imagine any of the male librarians I've known saying, "yeah, it's a good thing to not hire people based on their gender!"

I wonder what the ALA OIF would have to say about this? Should an ALA-accredited MLS take a job where your library by law couldn't even stock such a common title as the Bible? Would being able to check out a Bible be considered part of one's "intellectual freedom"? Seems to me it would. (ALA OIF, don't bother to comment. This library isn't in America.)

Keep in mind that the male librarian who gets this job would have to be straight, or at least pretend to be so, given the barbaric treatment of homosexuals in Saudi Arabia. Heck, the homosexuals have it worse than the women. They can at least pretend and the state will let them drive and appear alone in public. Hmm, wonder what the ALA would say about the implied position that they require a male librarian who's not gay? Boy, they're very discriminating in the intellectual backwaters over there in Saudi Arabia.

Sure, now you're going to say, the AL discriminates against Saudi Arabia. You're Okay, I'm Okay! We shouldn't judge people just because they have different values than us! Okay, Pollyanna, I'm sure the Saudi Arabians would be very accomodating of your flatulent moral relativism. Maybe they wouldn't even behead you. No, wait, maybe that's Iran.

This job is at what the Saudi Arabians call a "university": the brand new Prince Mohammad bin Fahd University. It's on the "male campus," hence the need for some straight men with ALA-accredited MLSs to work there. Considering that the values of universities in their highest sense involve the questioning of received values and opinions and the intellectual defense of positions, I'm not sure this would pass for a real university. "Oh no, women are bad to be around! Can I have my A-plus now?" wouldn't quite cut it in a real university, at least not as a matter of policy. (Nobody mention Women's Studies departments, please.)

Long-time readers know I'm very concerned with increasing the presence of underrepresented minorities in librarianship, especially hot, straight guys, but I don't think this is the way to do it, even on the very off chance that any of those straigt male librarians are hot.

117 comments:

T Scott said...

Hmmm, there may be some parts of the job ad that I can use. I like the part that the applicant must be "willing to do any and all tasks assigned, even if they are beyond the scope of the 'contract position'."

Melanie Rand said...

I don't see this as an issue. It's an all-male campus (including students). They're just creating a fully single-sex environment, staff included, for this particular school. What's the big deal? They specified that this is the male campus, implying that a female campus does or will exist elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Because clearly all gender discrimination is wrong. Let's make all women meet the same physical standards in PE and in the military (and have them be shaved bald as well). And for that matter, what about the freedom for another country to make their own decisions? Just because you think something is wrong HERE does not mean it is wrong for another country.

Teacherninja said...

I don't want you to die off. I think you're awesome.

The.Effing.Librarian said...

no women, huh, because of the temptation? what will they think when they see my Pop-Tart, baby back rib, Oreo fed manboobs???

(hey, someone should give you an award, like a golden delete key, or something. anything like that show up in your email?)

Anonymous said...

Quoting melanie rand:
"They specified that this is the male campus, implying that a female campus does or will exist elsewhere."

That's so optimistic of you. Or naive.
If women can't drive, travel, or leave their houses, what makes you think this new university is just dying to educate them?

il lib student said...

What anonymous at 3:25 said.

And ample dating opportunities AL? At my library, the best looking girls - and they are girls - are some of our aides. Who are still in high school. Which makes me feel like a dirty old man, even though I'm not all that old.

As for dating anyone in the profession, I find most of the profession are just a bit too granola fed for my tastes.

jlr said...

Dear AL and previous commentors,

please learn something about another society before you totally trash it.

AL: I love your blog and appreciate your snarky comments about our own society, but what *exactly* do you actually know about Arab culture in general, or better yet, Saudi culture specifically.

Write what you know.

Anonymous said...

I saw this ad this morning and quite taken aback by it; I did read the requirements though (no requirement that the person be male), and went to their web site, and I don't think that they are looking for a male librarian, just a librarian for the male campus. On their web site, they have jobs like "Library Technician, Female" and "Reference Librarian, Female, Male."

Anonymous said...

So you want hot straight men who aren't particularly manly?

I know a lot male librarians but most of them are straight and married. I was married (and I'm still straight) but I am soon to be single again. I wouldn't classify myself as hot or even all that cute. Then again, the only cute girls in this library are high school or college age, and I'm, well, not.

I guess for someone like me, looks are nice, but I would have to have something more, even if they were, for some strange reason, attracted to me. I mean, what would I have in common?

Come to think of it, I did just hire a male clerk (as opposed to a mail clerk) and one of the female pages was excited because he was cute. Hmm..

libraridan said...

"They're just creating a fully single-sex environment, staff included, for this particular school. What's the big deal?"

Wow. Remember that "separate but equal" brouhaha a while back? Yeah, I suggest you read up on that, because it is highly applicable here. You can't even enter the debate on a topic like this unless you can make that connection. Here is some light reading on the topic:

Brown v. Board of Education
347 U.S. 483, 74 S.Ct. 686, 38 A.L.R.2d 1180, 98 L.Ed. 873, 53 O.O. 326


Single-sex environments are artificial. What's the purpose in creating one, via segregation, if only to underpin antiquated and restrictive concepts of gender?

I'm amazed that people can't identify blatant sexism. How can they have any hope of identifying more subtle, insidious, and deep-seated sexism? ("Place in the circulating department one of the most accomplished persons in the corps of your assistants--some cultivated woman, for instance, who heartily enjoys works of the imagination, but whose taste is educated. She must be a person of pleasant manners, and -while of proper dignity, ready to unbend, and of social disposition. It is well if there is a vein of philanthropy in her composition." - Samuel Green, "Personal Relations between Librarians and Readers", Library Journal 1 (October 1876): 74-81.)

I'll be waiting to see that job listing for "Female Librarian (1), Female Library Technicians (3)", but I won't hold my breath.

Anonymous said...

Maybe there's something wrong with your definition of manly.

Anonymous said...

Ok, consider this; NO MARTINIS.
Saudi Arabia is a dry country in more ways than one. Also, there are enough horror stories about innocent foreign males being arrested on some specious charge and being used as a pawn in some larger political drama. I recall this happening to some Brits a while back. Flirt with their women and you are asking for trouble. The one thing about this job announcement is what it apparently doesn't say.

Dances With Books said...

Like T.Scott, that was what I worried about: "willing to do any and all tasks assigned, even if they are beyond the scope of the 'contract position'."

Now THAT I would really worry about? Let me see. MLS accredited by MLS? Check. Male? Check. Fluent in English? Check. Willing to do any and all tasks assigned, even if they are beyond the scope of the 'contract position?' Whoa, Nelly, not so fast. That sounds fishy to say the least.

And no martinis? Oh my goodness, now that would be tragic.

And ljr, I think we have seen more than plenty about that society, including their blatant sexism, perfectly exemplified in the ad.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of genderdiscrimination/ bias, This was one of the things that turned me off about librarianship in general. Maybe I'm wierd, but I don't mind working
under a female librarian, if they know what they are doing and are professional. Unfortunately, I found rather rampant anti-male bias in some libraries from the
'good-ol' gals'. This started in library school where one female teacher had her daily 'three minute hate' at the start of class about males in the field. I was the only white male in class, the other male student was from West Africa and didn't count. This was the one female teacher that I had to listen to this from. For what it's worth , both genders of students questioned her ability as a teacher in other classes. She eventually moved on and became head of a library program in Ill..

My next exposure came when applying for a type of job that I already had some experience with elsewhere. I was tipped off by one of my references, a former boss who was also a woman, that she had the feeling I didn't have a chance and was asked "don't you think a woman could do a better job than a man?". I was apparently there to window dress things. This was in Alabama.

I think I read that some 95% of librarians were women. It struck me, based on some things I've observed or heard from other men in the field, that it can get to be the same as you find in some male dominated lines of work, albeit more subtle.

I had to take care of two elderly parents for around a decade, and when I came out from under that I was facing the same situation anyone would, having been away that long. I had to ask myself if I really felt it was worth it to look further. I finally opted for a career change.

Anonymous said...

Oh come on...ALA just needs to make a resolution and the problem will fix itself by magic. Like what they did for human rights and world hunger much less information literacy.

Anonymous said...

The idea of being the college librarian to a bunch of hot young well-oiled saudi boys sounds pretty good. Getting beheaded for doing what they are doing with each other anyway...ok maybe I'll just go work at a Jesuit college.

library mistress said...

I wouldn't want to work in Saudi Arabia as a woman anyway. I don't think there are much countries less agreeable for women - no right to vote, no right to drive a car, no right to travel without consent of a male...
By the way, I recently read there are female-only campuses as well - male professors teach via video without seeing the female students.

Brent said...

Why should I respect a Saudi culture that doesn't respect more than half of its own people? It's OK to hate their culture.

Anonymous said...

Orthox Jewry is no different.

Face it, there is more then one ethic ont he planet, and even though something may be wrong by our ethic does not mean it is wrong in all ethcis. Some groups still practice guided destiny, and that's just how it is.

If you try to casue a revolution before hte people are ready to accept such a movemnt, you only succeed in getting the rebellers executed for crimes against their ethic. There is a course that ahs to be followed, and in this case, these people are still at a stage in their development aht is almost pre-industrial revolution. Give them a couple hundred years and they might come around. America did not start form scratch - we started with the history of Britian at our backs to be our guide. Look at how long it took even britian to recognize slavery to be wrong. Give it time.

And you know what? maybe, just maybe, it is OK once in a while to accept that there are places that men cannot and should not work, and equally places women cannot and should not work. If the policy at the all men's school is that all must be men, then best be upfront about it, no?

The arguement for segragated schools continues in even this country. See, apparently, the boys would learn better if they weren;t distracted by the pretty girls, and the girls would learn better if the boys were being so boisterous all the time. At least, those are the excuses. And this country is a Freeway filled with excuses.

Anyhow...
KAT!

Anonymous said...

AL said, "Where are the attractive straight guys, that's what I'd like to know?"

It's called Gresham's Law, look it up sometime, and the library field is full of it.

ALA and the twopointopians actively promote it.

Melanie Rand said...

For those who assumed me naive for expecting a course of study for females to be offered at this campus, nyah: http://www.pmu.edu.sa/enn/collegesandprograms.asp

Checked the source, go figure.

You can name-call all you want, there is evidence that single-sex education can be more effective.

Additionally, it can't be assumed that everyone who enrolls (or enrolls their child) in such a program is sexist or fears the opposite sex. Despite comments here I still have no problems with a single-sex campus hiring same-sex staff.

And what's with all of the sweeping generalizations about Middle Eastern cultures going on here? We can't be sexist, but we can be racist?

Anonymous said...

**gah** liberals

Let's celebrated diversity.

So long as everyone celebrates it like us.

Anonymous said...

As always, the Annoyed Librarian is way off base with her argument. Is this sexual discrimination? Yes, of course it is. Is it an issue for the AMERICAN Library Association? NO! The ALA is not the Library World Police. If you want world police and need to spread your ideology throughout Saudi Arabia, then go ahead and vote George W. Bush for a third term. It is unfair and unfortunate that Saudi Arabia is still conducting itself as a Boy's Only Club, but, like Melanie Rand said, taking issue with a same-sex campus requiring a same-sex library staff (especially in Saudi Arabia) is an exercise in futility. But let's face facts, the AL is only upset because it's asking for MALE librarians. If it had been Wellesley College asking for only female librarians for its staff, we wouldn't even be seeing a post from AL. If we're on the topic of sexism, then we need to address the Annoyed Librarian's own inherent sexism. Complaining only when women are on the wrong side of sexism, but not recognizing your own sexism when you make a statement like 'Isn't part of being a male librarian that you're not particularly manly?' is simple hypocrisy. And it shames those women and men who are actually making an honest attempt at acquiring gender equality.

I am curious though why you chose to drag the OIF into this argument. Is this really an Intellectual Freedom issue? Nothing in that ad post mentions book banning or privacy invasion. What is your beef with them?

I understand that blogs are opinion heavy, and I'm all for someone having unlimited opportunity to express their ideas, but when you start shifting blame on an organization and drumming up vitriol for no better reason than your own personal catharsis, then you betray your own lack of professionalism and ethics.

Getting upset at a Saudi Arabian university for gender discrimination is one thing, but dragging the AMERICAN Library Association into it simply because an ad asks for an ALA-accredited librarian makes no sense. The ALA is not in control of the details of a job ad in Saudi Arabia and you have no standing to suggest otherwise.

Elisa said...

Does this suck? Yes. If the job doesn't appeal to you, then don't apply.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 5:19 PM
I feel so sorry for you! Where I am the unique creature known as the 'Male Librarian' (or betesticled one) is much prized and will generally be given special treatment due to his unique qualities and rarity. I guess it is all a matter of where you happen to be. I suppose it is also compounded by the fact that I work in education where they are generally falling over themselves to attract male persons. A pity that you ended up where girliness was prized and I ended up where manliness was. c'est la vie.

Anonymous said...

"willing to do any and all tasks assigned, even if they are beyond the scope of the 'contract position'." - can you even have a contract that says 'and other stuff not included in the contract'?! I guess you can in Saudi Arabia (or they are just trying it on to see how much work they can squeeze out of their lucky applicant). In my neck of the woods they have actually removed those handy "and other duties as directed" parts of contracts as they are flaky at best (duties like clean the head librarian's car? hey, you were directed!). I *hope* this is just laziness on the part of the writer rather than calculated sneakiness.

Taupey, the Bush Kangaroo said...

Hot straight guys who crave Irish bottoms, I might add.

Anonymous said...

As the mom of a male elementary schooler who has ADHD and is a tactile learner, I can say that:

1)yes, research evidence does indicate that same-sex education is quite effective in some cases or situations, and

2)anecdotally I see that my son learns very differently from many of the girls in his class.

I'm quite offended by those who posted that same-sex education is "artificial" and "discriminatory." I'm DYING for an all-boys' school in my area! My son needs to touch, jump, move, and be loud when he learns. He's in worksheet hell right now in his standard, coeducational public elementary school.

contrarian said...

Not only should applicants for these jobs hide their gayness if they are gay, but they better not wear a cross around their necks or a star of David either. Those are no-no's in the Kingdom.

Anonymous said...

I work in education where they are generally falling over themselves to attract male persons.

Try reading more library job ads--all-female libraries urging females to apply in the name of "diversity". Males might have an advantage in high-level positions but not in the trenches--at least this position is honest about its sexism.

Also, the experience of gays is quite unlike one would expect: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200705/gay-saudi-arabia

Anonymous said...

Looks like you've lost your edge, AL. You're usually snarky but insightful, or at least amusing. This post is just snotty and vapid.

herself said...

"Contract position"? Is that anything like the, uh, "missionary position"?

Anonymous said...

This post is just snotty and vapid.

Ditto that. This one really seems pointless, on any number of levels. If you want to roast the ALA, focus on something they have something to do with.

This just comes across as a racially and culturally insensitive - and quite honestly, offensive - diatribe against a culture obviously not well understood by AL.

As a profession in the US, Canada and the EU, we can start by recruiting more near-eastern middle-eastern subject specialists into US LIS programs.

We need to actively support, fund, and recruit a much more diverse cadre of entrants into the profession.

And, we need to embed multicultural perspectives into LIS curriculum at both the master's and doctoral level.

The right candidate in this position could well be in a position to influence cultural understanding for the benefit of both the east and the west.

It's true, Marion Librarian with a year of post-mls internships is not right for this position. But there are people with MES/NES interests, foreign students with ALA accredited LIS degrees, and MLS grads with multilingual capabilities for whom this position could well be pivotal.

But if you go back and read some of AL's previous rants, that's not exactly on his/her agenda. Her previous posts on multiculturalism and affirmative action tell us exactly where he/she is.

To tell you the truth, this is one of the more uneducated, biased, and sanctimonious essays AL has posted to date.

Anonymous said...

Two things:

1) The job description asks for an ALA accredited Masters degree. That doesn't automatically mean that the candidate must be American, or even that the school is American. "ALA accredited" degrees can be obtained in any number of countries. So applying the American-based argument to the situation is not entirely accurate.

That one's in defense of the job ad (and kind of in response to Anonymous 10:50 am and the all-caps AMERICANs). In opposition to it, or to other posts which argue for gender segregation in education, here's my response:

2) Yes, males and females learn differently. That is well documented. There is nothing wrong, then, with having all-girls' or all-boys' schools. However, there is little evidence to support that male or female teachers/staff have a different effect on the students. In many schools and camps which are not co-ed, there are still opposite-sex faculty or staff who work there. I think you have to look at whether potential employees are being discriminated against, not whether the participants experience discrimination.

Anonymous said...

The job description asks for an ALA accredited Masters degree. That doesn't automatically mean that the candidate must be American, or even that the school is American.

Huh? You mean foreign students can't attend US or Canadian library schools? You might want to rethink this argument.

Anonymous said...

No, that's exactly what I meant. That (1) foreign students CAN attend U.S. or Canadian schools to obtain their MLIS (therefore, not all library Masters students are American), and (2) not all ALA-accredited schools are in the United States. You can have an ALA accredited degree and never have set foot on American soil.

I only pointed that out because the arguments seemed to be going in the direction of "American" vs "Middle East" and the job posting only asked for a specific kind of degree (assuming, I guess, that if it's ALA accredited then it's superior to other degrees. Now, *that* I have no proof for).

Anonymous said...

Forget the Saudis:
When a California funded library job can turn into one that sucks;

Schwarzenegger orders cuts amid fiscal crisis By DON THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jul 31, 5:23 PM ET



SACRAMENTO, Calif. - With California's cash dwindling and legislators still debating a new budget, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger eliminated thousands of part-time and temporary state jobs Thursday and ordered that 200,000 state workers receive the federal minimum wage.

ADVERTISEMENT

His move had been expected since last week but starkly illustrated the cash problem facing the nation's most populous state. Schwarzenegger apologized to state workers but said he had no choice.

"Today I am exercising my executive authority to avoid a full-blown crisis and keep our state moving forward," Schwarzenegger said. "This is not an action I take lightly."

The moves could save hundreds of millions of dollars a month, but whether full-time employees' paychecks will be cut is in doubt because the state controller, who cuts the checks, has said he will not comply with it.

Lawmakers have yet to agree on a spending plan a month after the state's fiscal year began.

Democratic and Republican lawmakers are divided over how to close a $15.2 billion deficit, with Democrats favoring $8.2 billion in new taxes on corporations and the wealthiest residents. Republicans want a spending cap and oppose tax increases.

Adding to the crisis was an unprecedented wildfire outbreak that cost far more for emergency response than the state had budgeted.

As of June, more than 30 states faced deficits totaling a projected $40 billion, or more than triple the gap of the previous year, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

California is the last state with a fiscal year that begins July 1 that still does not have a budget. It is facing a $15.2 billion deficit, dwarfing that of all other states. The next highest at the start of the fiscal year was New York's, at $5.2 billion.

Schwarzenegger's cuts exempt public safety agencies such as police and fire departments and prisons but will have an immediate effect everywhere else. Hiring, overtime and contracting will be halted, and tens of thousands of employees will feel the squeeze.

Assembly Speaker Karen Bass, a Democrat, said she was disappointed with the decision to defer the pay of full-time employees until a budget is signed.

"It is an unwise and unfortunate move to cause economic strife to public servants and their families who are working hard and playing by the rules," she said in a statement.

Bass said she hoped a new spending plan would be offered to Schwarzenegger "in the next few days."

Tiffany Woodruff, 28, works part-time at the state Employment Training Panel, which provides training to those who are out of work. She was expecting a pink slip Thursday afternoon and said she and other employees feel like pawns in the budget fight.

"We're just completely upset with having your salary completely abolished because of the inaction of the Legislature and the political inaction here," she said.

Schwarzenegger's executive order eliminating jobs covers 22,000 retired state employees who work under contract, temporary and part-time workers such as those who fill in at the Department of Motor Vehicles, seasonal employees and student assistants. But Schwarzenegger's finance team said just 10,300 would receive pink slips immediately. The others might be exempted because their jobs are deemed crucial to public safety.

Schwarzenegger also cited a 2003 California Supreme Court ruling allowing him to slash the pay of regular full-time employees when the state lacks a budget. By law, those workers must be paid at least the federal minimum wage of $6.55 an hour and will be reimbursed once a budget is approved.

Department heads were ordered to develop a list of exempt employees by Friday.

The first paycheck to be affected by the minimum wage order would be in early September, but state Controller John Chiang, a Democrat, sent a letter to Schwarzenegger on Thursday saying he will defy the order and issue employees their regular paychecks.

He said the executive order was based on "faulty legal and factual premises." Chiang said the 2003 ruling did not specify the amount of the salary his office could pay state employees during a budget impasse.

The controller and the Republican administration also differ over the state's financial condition. Chiang maintains that California has enough money to meet all its expenses through September.

As Schwarzenegger left the news conference to return to his office, a man in the hallway of the Capitol began shouting at him "no, no" and saying the cuts were unfair. He was quickly surrounded by California Highway Patrol officers and taken away.

Officer Keith Troy said the man was detained for protesting without a permit and escorted out of the Capitol; he was released without charges when officers determined he posed no threat. Troy said he did not have the man's name.

Anonymous said...

Is the Terminator proposing a pay cut for himself, as well?

Anonymous said...

Men are evil.

Let's just go with invitro fertilization and get rid of the evil sex.

The world will be such a better place.

Anonymous said...

Yeah! Anne Coulter can be your queen bitch breeder, Shirley Phelps can be your PR agent, and Courtney Love can be the MC. Awesome womyn world!

Anonymous said...

When men are gone, it will be a kinder gentler planet.

Peace and harmony will reign.

There will be hot and cold running martinis from every tap.

Anonymous said...

"This post is just snotty and vapid."

So it is both haughtily disdainful, contemptuous, presumptuous, imperious, and brazen, yet simultaneously lifeless, flavorless, spiritless, unanimated, tiresome, and prosaic.

In the spirit of the late George Carlin, AL is a plastic glass, highly inflammable and highly flammable...

My point is, even if this is not one of AL's stellar posts, and you are not entertained and beguiled, how is the post both arrogant and dull?

The only image I can conjure for that combination is John Kerry.

--Taupey

Anonymous said...

but Wellesley doesn't just hire (or advertise) for women librarians, you dummy. That's the point.

Anonymous said...

Huh - did you ever think that maybe they're getting these male ALA-MLS librarians by sending Saudi's to US schools? B/c I have some at my college. So what?

Anonymous said...

Peace and harmony will reign.

Only when every woman is replaced by a Stepford Wife.

Anonymous said...

When men are gone, it will be a kinder gentler planet.

Peace and harmony will reign.


There is plenty of evidence throughout history that suggests otehrwise. I would suggest you look up all of those cases where women were in charge.

I think thereis a pretty good reason why men have taken the lead position. For lack of better words, it's better to be number one and blamed for everything then to be number two and watch as catty women destroy the world. Between the drama and the pettiness, there would be Peace on earth. After all men die, all women die.
Kat!

Chatty Librarian said...

They'll probably get plenty of American and Canadian applicants for this job because my guess it pays well and comes with a host of fantastic expat benefits, including six weeks' annual leave to his home country, with plane fare paid for the employee and his dependents; several other paid western and Muslim holidays during the year; paid tuition at a top-rate private American or international K-12 school for his kids; furnished housing; possibly a car and driver; a good international medical insurance plan; and the other benefits you'd expect in the US, but with a higher salary.

They're probably emphasizing the ALA degree because so many people know it's such a good deal they undoubtedly get lots of applications from all other the world.

I'm not saying everyone wants to rush to Saudi Arabia, but the Gulf countries really want American-style education and American educators, and will pay to get them.

A colleague of mine worked at a Saudi university as a librarian recently, and said that, as an American woman, there was no expectation for her to cover her hair, not drive, etc., even as a single woman.

I write this from my furnished employer-paid apartment with free internet in Cairo, Egypt, where I work at the American University in Cairo.

Having said all that, there's no way I'd go to the Gulf.

Anonymous said...

The big problem if all men are gone, is that the women with aggressive characteristics would take over. I.E. the women that kill everyone that does not go along with them. There are lots of women that are as manlike as men. You know what I mean. You gonna get rid of them too?


Some would even say that a female overlord would be even more cruel and sadistic then a male overlord.

If you need any examples, look at men and women at school and at work. Not a pretty sight.

Oh, and a big ole "Troll Award" to the numbskull who started this whole debate. Thank god you are not in charge of squat.

Anonymous said...

The Troll was probably a man. Women are not overtly a-holes. The are covert ones. It is all about subtly.

j- said...

In KSA, they behead.
In Iran, they hang you from a crane...or stone you to death.

*Wow. Remember that "separate but equal" brouhaha a while back? Yeah, I suggest you read up on that, because it is highly applicable here.*

Yeah, um, the Supreme Court of the United States has no jurisdiction whatsoever in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

*If you want world police and need to spread your ideology throughout Saudi Arabia, then go ahead and vote George W. Bush for a third term.*

Get your talking points right. The last set of flash cards plainly stated that GW Bush was a tool of the Saudi royal family.

*Huh - did you ever think that maybe they're getting these male ALA-MLS librarians by sending Saudi's to US schools? B/c I have some at my college. So what?*

Cool! What flight school do you go to?

Anonymous said...

Things are always so simple for J.

Anonymous said...

AL must have been drinking too many Martinis after work to have missed this new library "trend". Not only do you have the game people but you have this now. Do they teach anything about this in LS now? Here are some things I found on google after catching a story on the news.
-----------------------------
•Pop Goes the Library: Fun Friday: Reed Memorial Library Cake Pan ...
A friend in Ohio informed me recently that her local public library, Reed Memorial
in Ravenna, has a collection of cake pans that it loans out to its ...
http://www.popgoesthelibrary.com/2008/07/fun-friday-reed-memorial-library-cake.html - 28k - Similar Pages


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I'm Kat! said...

CAKE PANS???????????

Anonymous said...

Forget the "Male Librarian" comments. The dismal fact remains that the extremist Islamic elements still rule Saudi Arabia.

Item #1: I have macular degeneration, and I was a participant in in an Age Related Eye Disease Study from 1991 through 2002. The person at the Wilmer Eye Institute at Johns Hopkins (Baltimore) who was my opthalmologist throughout this period was asked by the Saudi Government to go there to explain the parameters of the study and to inform their physicians on the progress.

Unfortunately, my physician was a woman. When she arrived in Saudi Arabia, she was immediately placed into one of those crown to ankles robes. When she arrived at the Saudi institute, she was not permitted to address the Saudi physicians directly./ They would ask a question of one of their colleagues, and Dr. Sackett would have to answer through that intermediatry. NO DIRECT CONTACT was permitted between her and the physician staff. She was a WOMAN!

So, since then, she has refused to go back, and I don't blame her.

Item #2: My corporation had a contract to build several military/naval facilities in Saudi Arabia in the 1990s. We sent our engineers and their families over there, where they lived in compounds. Yeah, that was all right until it came time for public executions. Then, our engineers and their families were ordered out of the compound and were placed in the front row to see beheadings and hands and feet cut off. We brought the families back home.

When they say "MALE" on the requirement, its for a reason, and it has nothing to do with what ALA SRRT members would like to change or to dispute. It is a very restrictive application to thaie intrpertation of sharia.

Anonymous said...

More murky U.S. deals with the Saudis
A Briton freed from dubious imprisonment in Saudi Arabia as part of a deal that released suspected terrorists from Guantanamo blasts the trade as hypocritical and immoral.

By Jefferson Morley


Jul 13, 2004 | On May 14, 2003, the Pentagon quietly announced the release of five Saudi men from the camp for U.S. prisoners of war at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. It was two days after suicide bombers had attacked a housing compound for foreigners in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia, killing 35 people, including eight Americans. In a brief e-mailed press release, the Pentagon stated that the "senior leadership of the Department of Defense" (that is, Secretary Donald Rumsfeld), "in consultation with other senior U.S. government officials" (that is, the White House), had decided the five Saudi men "no longer posed a threat to U.S. security."

The men were not identified, and the story was soon forgotten amid the many larger issues involved in handling the approximately 600 enemy combatants at the U.S. prison camp.

But behind that bland bureaucratic boilerplate is a disturbing story of how Saudis suspected of terrorism were set free in return for the release of a group of European men (all but one were Brits) accused of spying and held hostage in a Saudi jail after a trial in which no evidence was produced. This Saudis-for-hostages deal illuminates the Bush administration's willingness to bend its rhetorically tough counterterrorism policy to mollify its Saudi allies.

According to a report in the Saudi press, one of the men released by the Bush White House in May 2003 is an apparent al-Qaida supporter who refused to cooperate with U.S. interrogators. He may even be a free man today.

The story of the deal surfaced when the New York Times reported on July 4 that the release of the Saudi suspects had been secured by a secret arrangement blessed by U.S. diplomats and the Bush White House. Don Van Natta and Tim Golden reported that in return for the release of the Saudis, the kingdom agreed to release seven European men that human rights groups said had been tortured into confessing to spying for Britain. The deal was consummated three months later, in August 2003, when the Saudi government released the seven men.

One of the men, William Sampson, says he and his friends were not British spies but Western hostages effectively ransomed for the five suspected terrorists held at Guantánamo. "It is my information that the Saudis themselves broached the idea of an exchange, effectively using us as hostages," says Sampson, a Canadian-born British citizen who had lived in Riyadh since 1998.

Sampson wrote movingly of his ordeal in Canada's National Post last September. In a detailed account of the savage treatment he endured in a Saudi prison, he says that he and his mates were guilty of nothing more than living an alcohol-fueled expatriate life in an Islamic kingdom where drinking alcohol is officially forbidden.

The Times story said that the Saudis had presented the White House with a list of 15 Saudis whom it wanted released. How the five men to be returned to Saudi Arabia were selected is unknown.

Sampson believes that the negotiations for the release of the Saudis began sometime in 2002. In February 2003, Sampson's sentence was changed from 18 years' imprisonment to death by al-Haad, "the blade." "This cannot be just a coincidence," Sampson says.

In any case, the effect of the death sentence was to increase pressure on the government of Tony Blair in the spring of 2003. The decapitation of a British citizen in Saudi Arabia would have been a political nightmare for the embattled prime minister.

Then, on May 12, 2003, came the biggest attack ever in the heart of the Saudi capital, shocking the Saudi royal family, which had believed it was immune from attacks by al-Qaida, the group believed to be responsible. Two days later, the United States announced that four Saudis were being turned over to Saudi authorities and one was being released. There was no public announcement of the trade for the British and Belgian men.

According to a BBC report, Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi interior minister, said the men turned over to the kingdom would be tried in Saudi courts "as part of the country's rejection of all kinds of terrorism." And the Pentagon stated that the released men "no longer posed a threat" to the United States. But at least one of the men had reportedly trained with al-Qaida in Afghanistan.

Last week, the Saudi Institute, a Washington think tank, identified the five Saudis -- citing a May 16, 2003, article in al-Riyadh, a leading Saudi newspaper -- as Fahd Abdallah Shabaani, Ibrahim bin Omer al-Omer, Mishale Ashadouki, Fawaz Zahrani and Khalid Zahrani. The paper quoted a brother of Shabaani's as saying his brother had been arrested in Afghanistan during the month of Ramadan in 2001 for being an active member of al-Qaida.

Ali Ahmed, director of the Saudi Institute and a frequent critic of the royal family, says Shabaani "is the kind of guy who could have been picked as one of the Sept. 11 hijackers."

The Pentagon's press release of May 14, 2003, announced "the release of one detainee" and "the transfer of four Saudi detainees for continued detention by the Government of Saudi Arabia."

Who was the man sprung in the White House deal with Riyadh? A Pentagon spokesman declined to answer that question, citing a policy of not naming detainees "until or unless they are formally charged with violations of the law of war and are going to be tried by military commission."

There's a final twist to this story: The Saudis apparently attempted to renege on the arrangement. Once the five Saudis were home, the Saudi government did not immediately deliver on its end of the deal -- the British men and their Belgian friend remained imprisoned in Saudi Arabia.

A memo published last week in De Morgen, a Brussels daily -- written by a Belgian Foreign Ministry official who was seeking information on the matter -- makes it clear that the Belgian government believed there had been an agreement. In the July 12, 2003, memo, the Foreign Ministry official wrote: "In a few days, the American ambassador is coming back from vacation. I'll ask him what is the US reaction about the non-compliance by the Saudis of their part of the agreement (liberation of the British prisoners, in exchange for the liberation of the 5 Saudi prisoners who were detained in the base of Guantanamo in Cuba)."

After some behind-the-scenes pressure, the Saudis finally released the seven men in August 2003. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, asked if any deals had been made with Saudi Arabia, replied: "I worked very hard for the release of the British detainees and we were all greatly relieved once they were released. As to the precise circumstances I am not going to comment further."

Rachel Bronson, an expert on Saudi Arabia at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, says the secret deal says as much about U.S.-British relations as it does about U.S.-Saudi relations. "First, we wouldn't have released these guys if we weren't sure the Saudis would deal with them seriously," she said. "Second, it shows that President Bush is always looking for ways to help Tony Blair."

Sampson says the deal that led to his freedom "demonstrates the lengths the West went to indulge the needs of the house of Saud. The precedent is now established that hostage taking is an accepted form of diplomatic exchange between sovereign states. This constitutes immoral and criminal behavior -- something that our governments in their hypocrisy claim they stand against."

Anonymous said...

HIStory is written by men.

No wonder women get short shrift throughout the ages.

Things will be better when all men are gone.

Anonymous said...

Things will be better when all men are gone.

You're right! I wish. Still it's never going to happen. Women are just too weak and petty to accomplish something as large and complex as decimating the male population from the face of the earth. It looks like males are here for the remainder of the show. Damn, I just wish those males weren't so smart!

Anonymous said...

Men are so smug.

They don't see the hand writing on the wall.

They are not needed anymore.

At least not in the USA.

Anonymous said...

They are not needed anymore.

Well, if you feel that way, we want our rib back, you ingrate!

Anonymous said...

The only thing we need less of in this world other than males is male librarians.

Stop trying to take another job away from womyn.

Anonymous said...

Gender discrimination is not wrong.

Men have no rights to anything.

As soon as the majority of Americans, which are women, wake up to that fact and put men in their place, we are subject to the evil world that is out there now.

Anonymous said...

I wish wOmyn would take over. The world would end a lot sooner and we could all get this nonsense of living over with sooner rather than later.

Over.

Anonymous said...

1. I love that there are so many people who post here that don't like AL...Perhaps you should read a new blog or get out more.

2. If any man takes this job remember that it is now illegal to walk your dog or hold your cat in public this country.

3 "My son needs to touch, jump, move, and be loud when he learns." Are you sure he's learning? I'd vote for separate classrooms if it meant my child could be in a class without such distractions as these. That's one of the biggest complaints my husband gets from his good kids - so and so is loud and distracting me.

It's or classroom hell to me. I'm so sick of parents with "needs" kids bullying teachers to give their kids A's that they don't deserve. half the time (not with all kids) their problem is they are lazy and the parents never forced them to just do thier homework before running off to play.

I made it through public school with undiagnosed Dyslexia and no extra help . . . and college . . . and Grad school. Homework took longer, but I did it.

LB said...

Wow, what an interesting crowd of commenters we have here. Those that think that the way of life in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is just great --- calling people racist for being critical. Exactly what is the race of the people in KSA? I also just love the blame Bushies folks too.

What a splendid and out of touch world we have in academic libraries. Believing that women are treated well in the Islamic societies - is really blissful ignorance. As someone said -- it must be the granola diet.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what is up with all the Misogynists? You are no better than racists. Hatemongering wastes of flesh imho. As we all know, this world need more hate.

The irony here, is that due to your hate, you are more defective then the men you chastise. You have to admit, that is funny.

Anonymous said...

Misandry is what you meant to say. You have the terms backward.

Anonymous said...

I'm so sick of parents with "needs" kids bullying teachers to give their kids A's that they don't deserve. half the time (not with all kids) their problem is they are lazy and the parents never forced them to just do thier homework before running off to play.

Yeah, let's just take all those special ed / special needs kids and put 'em back into a box. That's the ticket.

Rather than creating a fantasy world, perhaps you and your kids should learn to live in the real world. You know, the one where all those stinky problem kids are now your bosses. Learn to deal with them early.

I think if I had dyslexia (and perhaps even if I didn't), I'd learn how to use spell check. "Thier" doesn't help you make your point.

Matthew said...

Hot straight guys who crave Irish bottoms, I might add


*puts his hand up...*

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:24 said:

Rather than creating a fantasy world, perhaps you and your kids should learn to live in the real world. You know, the one where all those stinky problem kids are now your bosses. Learn to deal with them early.

Hey Anonymous, Guess what! If THAT is your Version of the real world, you REALLY got screwed up stairs! Because in my world, people who can't cut it Don't Exist. We start with a simple Degree requirement. If you don't have the BS, you don't have the secret handshake. We wash the idiots out or fire them when able and get competant people in their places. This includes hiring people who spell it "thier" from time to time.

As it goes, a person who makes a mistake here and there like "thier" but has a conscience in their head and a work ethic behind their hearts, is worth their weight in todays economy

And here's the real kicker...in the real world I live in, we earn twice as much as librarians do across the boards. It's not a bad life.

We SHOULD be able to separate our kids in schools. If my student is there to achieve a higher education, they should be UNINHIBITED by the F*** UPS turning the classroom into a jungle gym. But NO, we have to keep the kids altogether so they all learn from each other. Once the Honors classes were created to do create the necessary separation in the High Schools. Seems these days everybody qualifies as "Honors," what a waste.

In the "Real World," the world outside the United States, there are people beating our kids left and right in education, but we just want to circlespin around and cry about how we need to include Everybody in our circle.

Let me give you a clue - everybody in this world is responsible for maintaining their own circle. EVERYBODY!

The next Depression should wake everybody up. It's coming. ;)

Anonymous said...

I am depressed now.

Does that count?

hippieman said...

Proud to be cranola! Post-sixties America is a wasteland. Too many bidness types with short hair and no ethics.

It's weird. At one point, say 30 years ago, it was cool to be a hippie. Now it's like having the plague.

USians have become soulless and acquisitive.

Anonymous said...

I thought that greed was good.

Now I am really depressed.

thanks hippieman

Anonymous said...

hippieman said...
Proud to be cranola! Post-sixties America is a wasteland. Too many bidness types with short hair and no ethics.

It's weird. At one point, say 30 years ago, it was cool to be a hippie. Now it's like having the plague.

USians have become soulless and acquisitive.

1:29 PM


That's becasue the hippies of today in no way shape or form resemble the actualy hippie movement of the Sixties. the movement of the Sixties actually had a purpose. Today's movment seems to be about nothing more then getting together and smoking pot. It doesn't help when you see 80,000-100,000 motercoaches at Rainbow gatherings. And Burning Man??? Talk about a sad Post nuclear Apocolyptic Image of humanity, it's straight out of mad Max!

My Uncle is one of the true Hippies. IE, the kind that go 15 years without wearing a single pair of shoes, or run around in vehicles resembling Pileups, the kind you would not want to be 20 feet from because they smell like firepits all night and that's the Good smell!

Once the War was over, the movement simply lost focus.

As for our country, we just lost our base is all...and we're not allowed to HAVE a base anymore!

soren faust said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

The Bums LOST, Lebowski!!

Anonymous said...

Because in my world, people who can't cut it Don't Exist.

Yeah, actually they do. Many of them are managers. Some of them are your bosses.

In this country, we don't shuffle off kids who need different kinds of help or accommodation to an educational gulag somewhere so your world vision is not disturbed by the reality of diverse people, cultures and abilities.

Pretty ugly stuff there, anon 12:16. Glad I don't live there.

Anonymous said...

My sister teaches in a special-ed school. Most of her kids come in after spending years in a "regular" school where they receive little support for their learning disabilites. When the kids arrive, they are used to feeling like ignorant losers. By the end of their first year, they find that they can achieve well in academics. The problem is that when they get to doing grade-level work,the state then tries to send them back to overcrowded city schools where they get sandwiched into trailers with 35 other kids and not enough aides so that they can get an "inclusionary" education. I, personally, believe in funding the special-ed schools so the kids can graduate and move on to college rather than drop out from frustration, despair, and neglect.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Because in my world, people who can't cut it Don't Exist.

Yeah, actually they do. Many of them are managers. Some of them are your bosses.

In this country, we don't shuffle off kids who need different kinds of help or accommodation to an educational gulag somewhere so your world vision is not disturbed by the reality of diverse people, cultures and abilities.

Pretty ugly stuff there, anon 12:16. Glad I don't live there.

8:54 PM


Hehe, see, I met my boss. And my boss's Boss. And my boss's boss's boss. And their collegues. None of them would score lower then 1400 on the SAT. Every one of them is fully competant in their job. And that is why I work there.

In fact, I haven't worked in a place yet where any of my bosses would score less then 1200. I guess I'm just lucky.

I understand the idea of diverse people, cultures and ideas. It is this reason my culture exists - Not ALL cultures are the perfect "Everyone can work here too" environment. Take a hint: in the Real World [where there are no buildings or sidewalks or barely even two track roads] there are no handicap accessible priveleges. People are diverse - which means not everybody has to do every job - there's a job each person is good at, and they should go do that job.

Anonymous said...
My sister teaches in a special-ed school. Most of her kids come in after spending years in a "regular" school where they receive little support for their learning disabilites. When the kids arrive, they are used to feeling like ignorant losers. By the end of their first year, they find that they can achieve well in academics. The problem is that when they get to doing grade-level work, the state then tries to send them back to overcrowded city schools where they get sandwiched into trailers with 35 other kids and not enough aides so that they can get an "inclusionary" education. I, personally, believe in funding the special-ed schools so the kids can graduate and move on to college rather than drop out from frustration, despair, and neglect.

10:13 PM


I have to agree with you - if these classrooms are where they excell, then why are we sending them back to the places where they were failing? They have other students to be social with, it's not like they are being stuffed in little boxes and shipped to Siberia. And they are with the people they trust. When they are ready for the normal classroom, let them tell US!

Anonymous said...

It's very tiring to encounter people who constantly badmouth the opposite sex or their boss. Most people who badmouth their boss have never been in their shoes. It's very easy to armchair quarterback (or backseat drive) when you don't have to deal with the big picture or the realities of politics and personalities. Most people who finally become a manager or boss abruptly discover that it's nowhere near as easy or clearcut as they used to think and now everybody under them thinks they are idiots.

Anonymous said...

...Most people who badmouth their boss have never been in their shoes. It's very easy to armchair quarterback (or backseat drive) when you

The Peter Principle in action.

Spoken like a true boss who doesn't have a clue.

Anonymous said...

Guess what?

Everybody discriminates.

Don't think so?

Ok, next time you have a job opening, hire the first person through the door.

Of course, that is discriminating too because you are hiring the early bird.

**sigh**

I guess we just are a bunch of discriminating people.

Anonymous said...

Everybody discriminates.

Everybody hurts, too.

hippieman said...

Actually, hippies have always existed. It's a state of mind. Just like "George Bush" is a state of mind. You know, I got my mine, and you can go to hell. Who knows when George Bushism will run its course, but it will. Because it sucks.

Long live the granola librarian! May he/she roam freely at the next ALA conference!

Anonymous said...

The Peter Principle in action.

Spoken like a true boss who doesn't have a clue.

Spoken like a true underling who doesn't have a clue. I worked my way up and worked every part of the library. What have you done?

Anonymous said...

Dad, what does regret mean?

Well, son, the funny thing about regret is that it's better to regret something you have done than to regret something you haven't done. By the way, if you see you mom this weekend, please be sure to tell her: SATAN!

Anonymous said...

Funny thing about the Peter Principle: it only seems to hold true to others you don't like, not yourself. When you get promoted will that be the PP at in action? Or will you say finally they promoted someone who deserves it? All in the eye of the slacker beholder.

Anonymous said...

I am a walking example of the Peter Principle.

Wanna talk about Library 2.0?

We are implementing it in a week or 2.0.

soren faust said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

If you trully are incompetent at incompetency, then I hope you work in academia. That way you can't really hurt anybody.

soren faust said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
It's very tiring to encounter people who constantly badmouth the opposite sex or their boss. Most people who badmouth their boss have never been in their shoes. It's very easy to armchair quarterback (or backseat drive) when you don't have to deal with the big picture or the realities of politics and personalities. Most people who finally become a manager or boss abruptly discover that it's nowhere near as easy or clearcut as they used to think and now everybody under them thinks they are idiots.

10:40 AM


See, I love my boss and I loved my previous bosses. They are all extremely competant bosses.

I cannot be a boss myself, not yet, but I can sure as heck tell you when a circle isn't round and a square is a rectangle or a parallelgram. I may not be able to make a perfect cirlce or a perfect square, but then I am not in the position where I have to do that! If I WAS, then I would be FULLY accountable for Any criticism of my abilities!

No, see, this is not a case of the Peter principle. This is an example of Idiots breeding Idiots, hence why we are surrounded by idiots everywhere we go.

Everybody discriminates as equally as everybody hurts. Guess what: your hurting isn't anymore special then anyone else's hurting.

Hurt'em, Soren!!!

Anonymous said...

Hehe, see, I met my boss. And my boss's Boss. And my boss's boss's boss. And their collegues. None of them would score lower then 1400 on the SAT. Every one of them is fully competant in their job. And that is why I work there.
In fact, I haven't worked in a place yet where any of my bosses would score less then 1200. I guess I'm just lucky.


No, you're just egotistical. And your English skills don't approach the 1400 level on the SAT.

Your company has no marketing, sales, design or professional development staff? Just engineers, Mensa dweebs and asperger's refugees, huh?

The SATs are only designed to correlate with probability of success in undergraduate studies for those students who tend to score well. It has little predictive value for future employment, and there is relatively poor correlation with the null hypothesis, that is students who do poorly on the SATs who nevertheless do well in undergraduate studies.

By the way, it's "score lower than 1400..." not score "lower then 1400..."

And, it's competent, not competant.

And it's colleagues, not collegues.

But, with an ego like yours, I'm sure you'll come up with a new grammar to justify it. What was your score again? Possibly, a librarian could help you out with your reading and writing problems.

Anonymous said...

It is pathetic that the people in your office even sit arround comparing their twenty-year-old SAT scores. You all need to get a life.

soren faust said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

We don't sit around comparing our scores - it's a simple matter of asking what everybody is and does and has done and from that you can genearlly figure out how many marbles are in the jar. In my industry it is just as important to know where someone has been as it is to know where they will go. The funny part is that my immediate boss went to college without a High School Diploma because Guess what! You Don't need one to get into college!!! He's an MLS now, but that's of little point. All the MLS means is he also earned a BS too - without Either a Diploma OR a GED.

And my Girl is now pulling 40-50k and she only has an AA. hmm, that's better then an MLS librarian, pity...Again, she's bright and she's actually competant. And she's the breadwinner in this family. Why? Because I actually believe in women having the same ability to be the number one salary earner as men do and I am not threatened by that. My manliness is no smaller and my worth is no less; I make less because I prefer to do less, and I actually get away with doing practically nothing half the time. This is not at all bad because this year I might pull down more than 30,000 working half time. I took the last five days off. And last week, I took no less then another 3 off. It's a rather nice situation I'm in!

Yes, at my work we have reduced our work forces down to nothing more then a couple supervisors, upper management, and contractors. We are located so far from humanity that we instantly weed out all the lackies because they can't get to us. Anyone who doesn't cut it - gets cut. Right now it is a slow season, so the breaks are longer - but when the season picks back up, I'll be doing what nobody else wants to do, I'm good at it, and I do it in a reliable manner.

If Saudi Arabia wishes to hire a male librarian, all I can say is more power to them. I will not be going there now and probably not ever either. The outside world is scary compared to this country.

Me.

P.S. Spell it all however you wish, but it seems that since you were able to proofread my post and accurately correct all of my errors, you could read it just fine before OR AFTER the corrections. But you still went and did it, and then had the gall to come back about old people discussing their academic accomplishemnts in the office. See, this is why you are stuck where you are stuck; You focus on these little pieces that are incorrect but still funcitonal and insist on correcting them. Meanwhile I run circles around you showing you that your little perfect peachy world only exists within the confines of your little sphere of influence. People like me will not be bothered to burden ourselves with carrying around your cultural ethic because quite frankly, it runs right along the lines of slavery, masochism and self deprevation.

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile I run circles around you...

I can buy the running around in circles bit. Otherwise, you're an idiot.

Anonymous said...

You do understand the entire PS is nonsensical, do you not? No one is stuck anywhere. Based on your claims, I make 4 times your salary for doing little more than you. My residual income on prior projects exceeds your income without any effort at all. Your company is tanking, by your own description, in spite of all your alleged SAT superiority. Your girlfriend is making less than a librarian 1 position at King County. No one has said anything about old people discussing their "academic accomplishemnts[sic]."

I'd suggest spell check and no more posting while drinking.

Anonymous said...

O.K. Let me set this straight. When I said I am tired of people badmouthing I was referring to people on blogs like this not my staff. We get along famously. We have one of the best libraries in the state and it's because we all work well together. I don't if anyone here would put up with a whiner or badmouther (new word).

Anyway, it's this pervading idea that everything bad must be the bosses fault just because they are the boss. It's ridiculous. Same with gender discrimination. If it is a boss, it's probably your bosses boss or her/his boss that's the problem. Provided there is a real problem and not just a perceived one.

And I'm not referring to posts about a specific boss. I'm talking about the generalizations made.

Anonymous said...

I should have said "I doubt" not "I don't" so don't fill up the blog with comments about my grammar or sentence structure. Thanks.

soxanne said...

Well, yeah, and did you see in ALA Direct that they're now allowing women in the library @ Dammam, Saudi Arabia without being escorted by a male relative ?

Visionary.

Anonymous said...

Ok, we have hit the hundred or so comments.

Time to move on.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:00,

There's a thing to be said about precision. You most certianly have it. The thing is though, it's only a virtue when it's accurate. And you keep missing the point, with the same precision, every single time.

Anonymous said...

Move along folks.

Nothing to read here.

The AL will be back.

Just keep moving on until the return.

Delia said...

Diversity, racism, sexism, ADHD, George Carlin, John Kerry, Democrats, Republicans, hippies and Ahnold. I love you, AL, because you just keep stirring the pot and all sorts of interesting crud floats to the surface.

Anonymous said...

AL doesn't even have to do anything.

Post your grocery list AL and the same crap will surface in the comments.

Anonymous said...

"Diversity, racism, sexism, ADHD, George Carlin, John Kerry, Democrats, Republicans, hippies and Ahnold."

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

Anonymous said...

"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine."

Born again Christians should not be allowed to post onto the Internets.

Anonymous said...

"Born again Christians should not be allowed to post onto the Internets."

I didn't realize Michael Stipe was a Christian.

There's more than one Internet? I must have been on the wrong one all this time. :-)

Anonymous said...

"There's more than one Internet? I must have been on the wrong one all this time. :-)"

Obviously.

Anonymous said...

Why stop with born again Christians? There must be a lot more groups out there that you can deny free speech to.

Anonymous said...

"Why stop with born again Christians? There must be a lot more groups out there that you can deny free speech to."

So true.

I think that women should be denied free speech too.

Anonymous said...

So are you saying that the next ALA conference won't be held in Saudi Arabia because they're discriminatory and all?

Anonymous said...

ALA should be held in Saudi Arabia. Then everyone won't be running around looking to get a martini or to get laid.

Anonymous said...

Better yet, all the librarians will be sentenced to beheading and without heads so much more will get done.

Anonymous said...

"Better yet, all the librarians will be sentenced to beheading and without heads so much more will get done."

Only the big head librarians need worry.

Anonymous said...

I recently graduated from the University of Pittsburgh and recall meeting at least one or two male students from Saudi Arabia in my library school classes. I even remember one of my professors challenging one such young man to explain why he would not be serving female patrons when he returned to his home country